Join attorney, wealth manager, and well-known author David Mandell, JD, MBA for Wealth Planning for the Modern Physician, a podcast dedicated to improving a physician’s financial bottom line. The podcast focuses on the wealth planning concerns faced by today’s doctor, with the goal of helping physicians make better financial decisions.

David talks with doctors from every specialty and stage of career about their real-world lessons in financial matters, and interviews industry experts in all areas of wealth management. Look for new episodes every other Thursday. Subscribe and listen today!

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David Mandell is an attorney and renowned authority in the fields of asset protection and wealth management. He is a co-author of more than a dozen books, including Wealth Management Made Simple and Risk Management for the Practicing Physician.

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OJM partners and orthopaedic surgeon Dr. Sanjeev Bhatia have authored this financial resource to provide physicians with wealth planning strategies to protect assets, reduce taxes, invest wisely and build retirement wealth during all phases of their medical careers.

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OJM Group has helped more than 1500 physicians across the U.S. with the financial challenges they face as individuals, employees, and medical practice owners. Click the button below to learn how we work with physicians.

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Listen in as David chats with nationally recognized healthcare mergers and acquisitions (M&A) attorney Gary Herschman. Gary begins by describing his firm and practice and then gives some statistics in terms of the number of M&A deals in the medical practice space.

David and Gary then dive into the reasons why a medical practice might consider merging with another practice, becoming an acquirer or being acquired. They then discuss how investors value medical practices, when to involve an attorney, and key success factors. Finally, Gary explains why an accurate understanding of the deals that are out there benefits physicians, even if they decide not to move forward.

Listen in as host David Mandell chats with entrepreneur and experienced private investor David Victor. They begin by discussing Victor’s career path, leaving the practice of law to join his father in the startup that became American Education Institute (AEI), where Mandell lectures every year.

They then explore AEI in more depth – what services it offers, why physicians might be interested in it, how COVID forced Victor to transform the business, and why the business may be stronger now than ever before.

Next, Victor explains his approach to investing in private businesses, including a dive into a cannabis-focused real estate project he is excited about today. He concludes with some advice to others looking to invest significantly into private businesses.

Listen in as David chats with student loan expert Ryan Frailich. David and Ryan begin with Ryan’s career path — from a teacher to human resources professional to Certified Financial PlannerTM with an expertise and certification in student loans (CSLP).

David and Ryan then dive into student loans – discussing Income Driven Repayment plans, the pros and cons of private refinancing, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, and various factors that can impact an individual physician’s student loan management strategy.

Finally, Ryan gives his thoughts on how young physicians in practice should think about balancing the desire to pay off student loans with other financial goals.

Listen as David chats with retirement plan expert Scott McHenry. David and Scott talk about Scott’s career path – from a position inside a large firm to the transition to his own firm about 15 years ago.

David and Scott then dive into Cash Balance Plans (CBPs). They discuss how these plans can be more favorable than other qualified plans, such as pensions, profit-sharing plans and 401(k)s, and define the type of practice or physician that is a good candidate for a CBP.

They wrap up with key success factors in implementing CBPs, how CBPs can work with 401(k)s, what happens if a CBP is terminated and how Scott and his firm work with physicians and practices throughout the U.S.

In this episode, orthopaedic surgeon Dr. Kevin Plancher joins David to discuss his academic and private practice career, experiences with finance and speaking alongside David at an upcoming orthopaedic meeting.

Listen in as Kevin explains how he ended up in orthopaedics when coming from a family in finance and building a department with other “young guns” in his first job out of training.  Kevin then talks about his decision to leave the hospital setting for his own practice after some years.

Next David and Kevin discuss his interest in academics and how Kevin balances his practice responsibilities with two teaching positions at two medical schools. They then chat about a finance course where both David and Kevin will be speaking, as part of the Ortho Summit in Las Vegas in December.  Kevin explains why it is important to him to speak with fellow doctors about business and finance.

Finally, David and Kevin discuss the One Thing he would tell younger physicians and the One Thing he would counsel fellow experienced doctors.

In this episode, orthopaedic surgeon Dr. Matthew Provencher joins David to discuss varied experiences he has had in his career.

Listen in as Matthew explains how he ended up in orthopaedics when his dream of being a Navy pilot didn’t work out. He then talks about his experience as a Naval surgeon, taking care of the SEALs and working on humanitarian missions and what he learned from those positions. He continues to share details about his time at Mass General in Boston, his time as the team physician for the New England Patriots , and what led him to move from Boston to Vail and join the Steadman Clinic.

Finally, they wrap up the episode sharing some information about a few of Dr. Provencher’s entrepreneurial activities.

Listen in as David chats with CPA and financial consultant Jessica Nunn. David and Jessica discuss Jessica’s initial interest in finance and accounting, including her education and initial jobs with larger firms working with public companies.

David and Jessica then dive into Jessica’s decision to go out on her own to help smaller clients like medical and dental practices and their owners. Then Jessica discusses how she helps practice owner clients today, giving some real examples of challenges that arise and how to improve processes and profitability.

Listen in as David chats with author and nationally recognized asset protection attorney Bo Loeffler. David and Bo begin by discussing Bo’s background as a litigator and U.S. Bankruptcy Trustee and how that has helped him as an asset protection attorney. Bo also chats about his experience in representing lottery winners.

David and Bo then dive into a few specific tools often used in asset protection planning, including insurance and exempt assets. They then cover limited liability companies (LLCs) and trusts—discussing the key success factors for each and pitfalls to avoid.

In this episode, orthopaedic surgeon Dr. David Yanoff joins David to discuss varied topics. Listen in as Dr. Yanoff shares why he initially became interested in medicine and how his military service guided him into orthopaedic surgery.  He then explains his sudden departure from his first practice for a new town and how that led to building a thriving practice and owning the building where he practiced.

They discuss this, his process for gradual retirement, and much more, in episode 4 of season 2 of the Wealth Protection for the Modern Physician podcast.

This episode focuses on the timely topic of the Employee Retention Tax Credit (ERC), which many medical practices may be able to take advantage of for significant tax savings. From its origins in the CARES Act in 2020 and the rules that related to it around the PPP loans and more, to the changes recently enacted by Congress as a part of the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2021 (CAA).

In conclusion, Carole explains what medical practices should be doing now to see if they are eligible for the ERC.

Listen in as Michael explains his interest in becoming an orthopaedic surgeon following a college gymnastic career and his early exposure to business and finance.  Michael then describes his first job out of training and the unique focus that practice had on pro-active marketing – and lessons he took away from that experience that all doctors can implement.

Michael and David then discuss his move from that practice to the Hospital of Special Surgery (HSS) and what went into that decision.

Finally, Michael summarizes a lecture he gives on personal branding for physicians. He explains several key success factors that physicians can apply to build a strong brand in their community, encourage referrals and build a busy practice.

Listen in as David chats with CPA and professional EOS implementer Crystal Faulkner about the Entrepreneurial Operating System and how physicians and practice owners can benefit from using it in their practices or entrepreneurial ventures. David and Crystal discuss what the EOS is, how it differs from other strategic planning processes, and what the 6 key components of a business/practice are. They then examine the challenge and approach to dealing with people on the team and getting them in the “right seat”.  Crystal then covers the importance of culture and how her clients who use the EOS fared during the pandemic.

Listen in as David chats with Jerry Kelsheimer and Ronnen Isakov, President and Managing Director of Medic Management Group, a national “one stop” solution for healthcare management.

David, Jerry and Ronnen examine several aspects of the business of medicine, including ways that Medic Management Group helps physicians and medical practices. They discuss what “thinking like an entrepreneur” means for physicians and the questions entrepreneurial practice owners should ask. The also cover risks inherent to today’s medical practice, exit planning and more.

Listen in as David talks with ophthalmologist, Desmond McGuire, MD. Desi explains his first exposure to ophthalmology back in high school, as well as how his parents influenced his commitment to saving for retirement. Dr. McGuire and David then review how Desi founded his practice by purchasing it from a few physicians and then buying out one of the doctor’s individual practices—and key success factors in those deals.

Desi and David then examine the risk of signing personal guarantees on investment deals, with Desi sharing a private investment deal he was involved in that did not go as planned. Finally, they discuss what has made Desi’s practice thrive and how he has gone about bringing on new partners in the practice so successfully.

This episode focuses on a timely economic issue–inflation and its impact on investments. You’ll hear from David, as well as his OJM Group partner, Andrew Taylor, CFP, as they discuss inflation basics and what listeners need to know about its impact in May 2021 and in the coming months.

Listen in as guest host and OJM Group Co-Founder Jason O’Dell chats with Mark Grosvenor, Executive Vice President and Chief Technology Officer for NFP (National Financial Partners) about several important topics for physicians and medical practices, including cyber fraud involved with PPP loans (and practical steps to take to avoid it), what “social engineering” attacks are, what a business should do if they are a victim of cyber fraud.

Listen as Brad covers a number of important issues, including common compliance red flags in medical and dental private practices. He also dives briefly into HIPAA, Stark, and anti-kickback rules, and outlines important elements to recognize in 2021. Finally, Brad discusses a crucial success factor that every doctor should understand when working with their attorney.


Listen in as Dr. Jen Haley joins David to discuss how her upbringing influenced her decision to become a physician, why she shifted specialties during her training, and how a few unplanned significant decisions have shaped her career and financial life. Jen also talks about her Radiance Revealed Podcast and reveals a few important financial habits and philosophies which have allowed her to become financially independent now and practice in a way that fits her lifestyle.


In this episode, anesthesiologist and fellow podcaster Dr. Richard Marn joins David to discuss various topics. Listen in as Richard explains his decision to pursue anesthesiology, when he originally planned to be a surgeon, and his choice to leave a large academic institution after many years for solo private practice. They also discuss Richard’s and his wife’s investments in real estate and their search, with some successes and failures, to get tailored asset protection advice.


In this episode, David is joined by investment bankers Clint Bundy and Stewart Carlin from The Bundy Group. Clint and Stewart each discuss success factors for physicians looking to sell their practice, merge into larger practices or even become an acquirer.  They also cover a few common mistakes they often see in the medical practice space.

In this episode, David speaks with Cleveland Clinic Florida orthopaedic surgeon Dr. Gregory Gilot and his collaborator “Your Financial Therapist” Erika Wasserman.

Greg and Erika then explain the basics around Financial Therapy—what it is, how it differs from typical individual or couples therapy, and how physicians could benefit from a short course of Financial Therapy to alleviate many types of stresses that come with the student loans, the practice of medicine, marriage, etc.

In this episode, gastroenterologist and entrepreneur Mukul Mehra, MD joins the program to discuss his career journey and business pursuits.

Listen in as Mukul explains his financial choices on schools to attend, job selection and how he sought the right financial firm to guide him. He and David also discuss how Mukul’s time away from the practice led to insights which culminated in his successful healthcare company and the importance of finding the right mentor in business.

Finally, Mukul gives his advice to physicians – on protecting one’s time and taking risks.

In this episode, David interviews Dr. David Goldberg, a dermatologist, attorney, law professor and dermatologic surgery fellowship director.

Dr. Goldberg discusses his motivation to become a physician, his experience in joining a private practice after training and the decision to leave that practice and go out on his own. He then explains his decision to go to law school at night and what he took away from that training.

Finally, Dr. Goldberg explains his advice to fellow physicians regarding liability and asset protection and the recent merger of his practice and his new position.

As the new year begins and the Biden administration takes office, this episode focuses on the timely topic of 2021 tax planning.

David opens with an overview of two tax-related topics: (1) the improvement of the tax-favored asset class of permanent life insurance by a federal law passed at the end of 2020; and (2) the tactic of timely tax loss/gain harvesting – which should be implemented throughout the year, not just in the fourth quarter.

David then brings on his partner Carole Foos, CPA, to discuss the Biden tax proposals, what we might expect in terms of tax changes in 2021, and strategies that can be implemented to leverage advantageous rules and minimize the impact of rules that could negatively affect doctors.

In this episode, sports medicine orthopaedic surgeon Dr. Scott Faucett, MD, MS joins the podcast to discuss his career path, decisions concerning career and finances, and his entrepreneurial ventures in medically-related businesses. 


Listen in as Scott explains his background in finance, from both his family and college education and his fascinating master’s program at Dartmouth, where he trained in many management areas related to medicine.  He and David also discuss Scott’s various job decisions and his learned importance on working with specialists, both in his personal wealth planning and in launching new ventures.  David and Scott then cover lessons Scott has learned as an entrepreneur.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why Scott became a physician and orthopaedic surgeon
  • Scott’s interest and education in finance early on
  • What Scott learned getting his master’s degree at the Dartmouth Institute
  • What his experience coming out of fellowship taught him – the value of multiple options
  • How Scott’s current position allows him flexibility, yet the scale of a large group
  • The importance of delegating areas of his personal wealth planning to specialists he trusts
  • How Scott founded a few entrepreneurial ventures in medicine
  • Lessons for other physicians considering doing the same – the three stages of new venture development

Resources Mentioned:

This episode focuses on a powerful wealth planning opportunity for physicians that is time-sensitive — leveraging today’s historically low interest rates. You’ll hear from David, as well as his OJM Group partner, Jason O’Dell, MS, CWM, as they discuss techniques for leveraging low interest rates in a number of wealth planning areas.


David discusses three ways to leverage such low rates and then introduces Jason to discuss premium-financed life insurance, one technique that has increased attractiveness today.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why interest rates are so low right now
  • Refinancing existing loans, from home mortgages to practice and student loans
  • Estate planning techniques that benefit from low interest rates called “AFRs”
  • Using life insurance as an asset class
  • Permanent insurance vs. term insurance
  • What premium-financed life insurance is and why it is attractive today

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“One of the ways to build flexibility into estate tax planning is to make a loan between family members.” – David Mandell

“You have these really powerful gift and estate tax opportunities right now.” – David Mandell

“You have money growing tax-free and coming out tax-free.” – Jason O’Dell

Resources Mentioned:

In this episode, Orthopaedic Spine Surgeon Isador Lieberman, MD, MBA joins the podcast to discuss his career path from Toronto to Cleveland to South Florida to Dallas, including academic positions, clinical work and administrative responsibilities.


Listen in as Isador explains why he sought out an MBA while in practice at the Cleveland Clinic and what lessons he learned running orthopaedic departments and, currently, the Texas Back Institute.  He and David also discuss entrepreneurial opportunities that physicians can leverage, as well as Dr. Lieberman’s founding of, and continuing work with, the Uganda Spine Surgery Mission.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why Isador decided to become a surgeon
  • Isador’s exposure to finance and business early on
  • The importance of understanding the organizational structure of business
  • Why Isador went back to school for an MBA while in practice and what he uses from that education on an daily basis while running a large specialty practice
  • The biggest challenges to overcome when running an organization
  • Why he sees great opportunities in new areas of medical technology
  • How Isador came to Africa originally and the work that the Uganda Spine Surgery Mission does today

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“It’s being able to figure out the puzzle and make the right decision.” Isador Lieberman

“I encourage everyone to broaden their horizons.” Isador Lieberman

“We are providing quality care …and that’s why we are being successful.” Isador Lieberman

Resources Mentioned:

Today we have two guests joining the show: Drs. Robin and Evander Fogle, from Atlanta, Georgia. Robin is a Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility Specialist, while Evander is an Orthopaedic Surgeon. In this episode, we discuss their stories of how they met, and their medical training paths across the U.S. (and Evander’s stint as staff surgeon at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba).


We focus most of the discussion on their challenges of making financial decisions as a couple and raising a family with busy practices – including the differences in how Robin deals with money vs Evander, yet how they make it work. They touch on buying that first house, savings vs spending, budgeting, the value of getting a professional’s input, the importance of delegation and more.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why Robin chose to specialize in fertility
  • How Evander got into orthopaedic surgery
  • Evander’s experience working in the military
  • Their initial job search and how they ended up in Atlanta
  • How the couple chose and financed their first house
  • How Robin and Evander manage their finances as a couple – and key differences on how they approach money
  • Key advisors they have used and the value they have brought
  • The balance between doing everything oneself and delegating to experts
  • One key piece of advice to younger docs from both Robin and Evander

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“Doctors get paid about the same, regardless of where they work, so cost of living makes the bigger difference.” – Dr. Evander Fogle

“A budget doesn’t really work if you don’t follow it.” – Dr. Robin Fogle

“Once I realized I needed to be prioritizing my time and leaving things for others to help me with, my life got a lot simpler.” – Dr. Evander Fogle

Resources Mentioned:

  • David Mandell: Bio
  • Robin Fogle: Bio
  • Dr. Evander Fogle: Bio

Tim Sawyer is the President and Co-Founder of Inc. 500 Company Crystal Clear Digital Marketing. He is a highly regarded motivational speaker, author and practice management consultant within the medical industry.


Listen in as Tim explains what he has learned from running his own business, including his mistakes, and what his advice would be for physicians in private practice or with entrepreneurial aspirations. You will learn the important difference between abdicating and delegating, how to increase productivity by updating your database and more.

What You’ll Learn:

  • How Tim became an entrepreneur
  • What Doctors and Entrepreneurs have in common
  • Delegation versus Abdication when it comes to practice staff
  • The importance of having an updated patient database
  • How Tim’s business has pivoted with all in-person medical conferences cancelled during COVID
  • How Tim took advantage of the COVID shutdown to better position his personal finances


There is a difference between delegation and abdication. — @CCDMTim

One thing that we did really well was we created a lot of strategic partnerships with other non- competitors in the industry. — @CCDMTim

Resources Mentioned:

A second-generation physician, Jonathan explains why he became a plastic surgeon, his background in getting a master’s degree in public health, and his choice to become an employed physician out of fellowship. He and David discuss Jonathan’s decision to buy a private practice in San Francisco and everything that was involved in that transaction, including his use of an SBA loan and creation of a business plan.


Jonathan then discusses the areas of wealth planning he handles himself, as well as the areas he delegates. Finally, Jonathan and David chat about why he created BuildMyBod, a tool that strives to create price transparency in health care. Jonathan covers what this new venture offers physicians and valuable lessons he has learned from this business.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Why Dr Kaplan decided to get into plastic surgery
  • What to look at specifically when buying a practice
  • The importance of transparency in purchasing or selling a practice
  • The thought process behind creating BuildMyBod
  • How to utilize email marketing for any medical practice
  • Financial advice for any young physician


“The Key is finding someone you trust. Transparency is a big part of that.” — David Mandell

“If you want to learn about business and finances go buy a practice and you’ll get a crash course on all of them.” — Dr. Jonathan Kaplan

“I have two sets of patients, the people that are my patients and the people that are not yet my patients.  That’s what the email marketing does; it brings those other people in.” — Dr. Jonathan Kaplan

Resources Mentioned:

Michael S. Byrd is a partner at the law firm of ByrdAdatto, a national business and healthcare boutique law firm. As the son of a doctor and entrepreneur, Michael has a personal connection to both business and medicine, and he has blended these life experiences to become a leading advocate for doctors and dentists throughout the United States. Today he joins the show to share his advice for any physicians looking to become involved in entrepreneurial activities, including running a private practice.


Listen in as Michael shares where physicians tend to go wrong when it comes to legal issues and how “$5 problems” often escalate to become “$50 solutions.”  Michael also discusses success factors that every doctor should be aware of when working with attorneys.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Michael’s background and what pushed him to become an attorney
  • How he began representing physicians early in his career and never deviated
  • Advice for physicians involved in entrepreneurial activities
  • Where physicians tend to go wrong when evaluating and treating legal issues
  • Success factors that any doctor should know when working with an attorney
  • How his firm charges physicians differently than nearly all other law firms 

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“We realized we are truly entrepreneurs living in lawyers’ bodies.” – Michael Byrd

“There wasn’t the same appreciation for the level of risk and decisions you’re making when you’re building something for others or it is your own creation.” – Michael Byrd

“The thing with doctors is they are not very good about going to doctors.” – Michael Byrd

Resources Mentioned:


Dr. Jeffrey Segal is a board-certified neurosurgeon, attorney and founder of Medical Justice, a physician-based organization focused on keeping doctors from being sued for frivolous reasons. He is also the founder of eMerit, which helps doctors protect and preserve their reputations—particularly online. Jeff joins the show today to discuss his journey from physician to CEO to attorney to CEO.


Listen in as he explains what is takes to launch a venture and why there are always lessons to learn from starting one—even if you fail. You’ll discover the importance of creating a great team around you – whether it terms of staff or advisors, how managing your online presence can help you not only overcome bad reviews but also positively add more patients, and Jeff’s advice for young physicians starting out.

What You’ll Learn:

  • Jeff’s personal story that drove him to become a neurosurgeon
  • His experience transitioning from practicing physician to pharma CEO
  • Why becoming a lawsuit defendant lead him to launch Medical Justice
  • How Medical Justice helps doctors de-escalate potential conflicts so they don’t become lawsuits
  • Why one’s online reputation is so important for nearly all physicians – and how there is both a protection and marketing element to successful management
  • The ONE THING Jeff would advise young physicians about business and finance

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“The solution to pollution is dilution.” – Jeffrey Segal

“The online world is what makes or breaks a practice.” – Jeffrey Segal

“No business—even if it fails—is a complete and total failure. Lessons are learned that can be applied later.” – Jeffrey Segal

Resources Mentioned:

In this opening episode, Sanjeev Bhatia, MD, joins the show to discuss investing, making informed job decisions, and more. You will learn the importance of viewing investing as a long-term game (and not being discouraged if you lose money in the beginning), why we must be careful not to over-analyze ourselves, and why the first job you take is not necessarily your perfect job.


What You’ll Learn:

  • What turned Sanjeev off from investing initially
  • The proper way to view investing
  • The benefit of being proficient in financial modeling
  • Why it’s important to ensure your job aligns with your long-term goals
  • Sanjeev’s take on why 75% of orthopedic surgeons (and many other physicians) change jobs after five years
  • Why we must make informed job decisions

Ideas Worth Sharing:

“The perfect job that you find is often not the first job that you take.” – Sanjeev Bhatia, MD

“Imprudent investing and having an unbalanced approach is really detrimental to your finances.” – Sanjeev Bhatia, MD

“If you’re going to make a move, it’s really important to make sure that your job aligns with your long-term goals.” – Sanjeev Bhatia, MD

Resources Mentioned: